General Why is it so often claimed that the US 'lost' the Iraq War?

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Sheepdog

Sheepdog

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This is an odd assertion that I see made all the time and it isn't really challenged seemingly by either side of the political fence.

The Iraq War was a gigantic clusterfuck that cost lives and treasure, was sold to the public on a lie and has served to strengthen the US' major geopolitical foe in the region, Iran. But it's initial objective was to eliminate Saddam for a variety of reasons unrelated to WMDs, which it did easily, and this transformed into battling various phases of Sunni (and opposing Shia) insurgents while propping up a new Shia regime. With ISIS (which just evolved from the same Al-Qaeda and even Ba'athist insurgents they were always fighting) beaten down again, it hasn't 'lost' in this regard at all.

It's actually good that people understand that war is simply an extension of politics, and a 'victory' can be a far greater disaster than a 'defeat'. But the entire clusterfuck of Vietnam and the continuing clusterfuck of Afghanistan were both based on this bizarre notion that you cannot accept 'defeat', so it's strange to me that so many people who cling to these notions will accept this term so readily.
 
Lukewarm Carl

Lukewarm Carl

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Aug 7, 2015
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So I think most people consider it a loss because of everything you said. It was kind of the "As Seen On TV" of wars. I bought the bacon wave because I thought it would make my bacon experience better. As it turns out it was a giant mess that led to me wasting a ton of money trying to figure out which bacon would work best and just left grease everywhere. Now it did make bacon so I guess it was a victory in that sense but it really wasn't worth it and I'm back to dealing with the same basic problem I had to start with.


 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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Galt said:
Europe lost.
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Europe became enriched thanks to the forward thinking benevolence of the empire. There is much to be grateful for.

And Iraq had to pay a longstanding debt for the captivities. These things are not forgotten.
 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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Galt said:
Gotcha I am retiring soon as well. Not fit for company after a certain amount.
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He is quite right though. Iraq lost that war about as comprehensively as is imaginable. 6,500 thousand years of civilization reduced to a smoldering rubble. Antiquities looted, groundwater polluted, chaos everywhere.
 
M

member 3289

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Bottom line is that we've never truly lost a war in our nation's history. No other G8 country can say that.

Vietnam was a strategic withdrawal because the South Vietnamese didn't have the will to fight the Viet Cong any more (we can gift guns, but we can't gift courage).

Also, people correctly point out that U.S. policy in Iraq caused the growth of ISIS from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but they forget that former Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki's refusal to sign the Joint Service Agreement was what led to a mass withdrawal of our troops. Once shit hit the fan with ISIS and the country under new PM Haider al-Abadi signed such an agreement, ISIS territory has gone to almost zero (they might control one or two chicken farms in southwestern Iraq).

We've saved Iraq and we've saved northern Syria, just like we saved South Korea in the 50s and all of Western Europe and East Asia in the 40s.

No need to thank us, just stop bitching.
 
Disciplined Galt

Disciplined Galt

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Miami Size Queen said:
Bottom line is that we've never truly lost a war in our nation's history. No other G8 country can say that.

Vietnam was a strategic withdrawal because the South Vietnamese didn't have the will to fight the Viet Cong any more (we can gift guns, but we can't gift courage).

Also, people correctly point out that U.S. policy in Iraq caused the growth of ISIS from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but they forget that former Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki's refusal to sign the Joint Service Agreement was what led to a mass withdrawal of our troops. Once shit hit the fan with ISIS and the country under new PM Haider al-Abadi signed such an agreement, ISIS territory has gone to almost zero (they might control one or two chicken farms in southwestern Iraq).

We've saved Iraq and we've saved northern Syria, just like we saved South Korea in the 50s and all of Western Europe and East Asia in the 40s.

No need to thank us, just stop bitching.
Click to expand...
That kind of talk would result in a beating.
 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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The intent was to divide Iraq into three squabbling mini states. You could see this clear as day watching the early coverage on CNN, qwhich is always useful in that way. Tells you everything about intent. The flow of refugees into Europe was gravy.
 
Team Bisping

Team Bisping

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Miami Size Queen said:
Bottom line is that we've never truly lost a war in our nation's history. No other G8 country can say that.

Vietnam was a strategic withdrawal because the South Vietnamese didn't have the will to fight the Viet Cong any more (we can gift guns, but we can't gift courage).

Also, people correctly point out that U.S. policy in Iraq caused the growth of ISIS from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but they forget that former Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki's refusal to sign the Joint Service Agreement was what led to a mass withdrawal of our troops. Once shit hit the fan with ISIS and the country under new PM Haider al-Abadi signed such an agreement, ISIS territory has gone to almost zero (they might control one or two chicken farms in southwestern Iraq).

We've saved Iraq and we've saved northern Syria, just like we saved South Korea in the 50s and all of Western Europe and East Asia in the 40s.

No need to thank us, just stop bitching.
Click to expand...
 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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The Shia pipeline looks closer than ever to coming to fruition though, which is the biggest possible loss for the US and NATO. The Saudi Gulf pipeline through Turkey isn't passing through any Shia controlled territory, I think that's safe to assume. I always kind of thought the battle of the pipelines was the biggest prize in all of this.
 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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Disciplined Galt @Galt I have talked about this stuff here before you know. Quite recently I was blocked over at another website for sharing a link to the English translation of Bar Hebraeus' Chronography. Maybe two people were interested in that, one was quite interested. But no one would have read it and now I can't either. I think Ted Williams' head @IGotAHugePeckah is correct. Nobody really cares about these overseas wars anymore. They come and they go.
 
Disciplined Galt

Disciplined Galt

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Megaterio Llamas said:
Disciplined Galt @Galt I have talked about this stuff here before you know. Quite recently I was blocked over at another website for sharing a link to the English translation of Bar Hebraeus' Chronography. Maybe two people were interested in that, one was quite interested. But no one would have read it and now I can't either. I think Ted Williams' head @IGotAHugePeckah is correct. Nobody really cares about these overseas wars anymore. They come and they go.
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Fucking sad though. Have read war stories by some bbc old fella. Down in the trenches.
 
megatherium

megatherium

el rey del mambo
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Galt said:
Fucking sad though. Have read war stories by some bbc old fella. Down in the trenches.
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Have you heard that sub Saharan black African slavery has been reintroduced in the chaos that is Libya?

"I've got a big strong man here that knows how to use a shovel. He can dig. Will you give me 400 dollars for him".

Yeah that slavery. Foreign wars. Whaddya gonna do?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/starved-mutila ... ya-1647428




 
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