Fedor set to begin negotiations with EFN no UFC

[wiz]

I keep hearing about Hunt's improved takedown defense but over the last two years (4 fights) he gets taken down just under 53% of the time 10/19.

I meant his overall defensive grappling: his takedown defense, getting back to his feet, submission defense (hasn't been submitted in the past 5-6 years), etc. He's been taken down, but who has been able to finish him by TKO or submission on the ground since 2010? Only the current HW champ Stipe Micioc and he had to keep taking down Hunt many times and it took him 5 rounds to do it. Other than that, Hunt has not been submitted or held down by high level grapplers like Bigfoot in two fights, Stefan Struve, Frank Mir, Fabricio Werdum,Roy Nelson, etc.

He has absolutely improved his defensive grappling significantly since 2006. Without question. This is the same guy who at one point got taken down and/or submitted by middleweight Mousasi and McCorkle in the first round.

 

[BJJMMA]

My mistake, I meant his overall defensive grappling: his takedown defense, getting back to his feet, submission defense (hasn't been submitted in the past 5-6 years), etc. He's been taken down, but who has been able to finish him by TKO or submission on the ground since 2010? Only the current HW champ Stipe Micioc and he had to keep taking down Hunt many times and it took him 5 rounds to do it. Other than that, Hunt has not been submitted or held down by high level grapplers like Bigfoot in two fights, Stefan Struve, Frank Mir, Fabricio Werdum,Roy Nelson, etc.

He has absolutely improved his overall grappling significantly since 2006. Without question. This is the same guy who at one point got taken down and submitted by middleweight Mousasi and McCorkle in the first round.

That's fair. But just like it would be unfair for me to not take into account that Hunt hasn't been submitted its also not really fair to say Fedor couldn't based on one fight where he just screwed up big time. It would be like me saying Mark Hunt has no chin to stand in HW because he was knocked out by a MW on short notice (Manhoef). Fluke.

 

[wiz]

That's fair. But just like it would be unfair for me to not take into account that Hunt hasn't been submitted its also not really fair to say Fedor couldn't based on one fight where he just screwed up big time. It would be like me saying Mark Hunt has no chin to stand in HW because he was knocked out by a MW on short notice (Manhoef). Fluke.

Well Im not basing it on just the Maldonado fight. In fact I wouldn't look at that fight at all cause there was barely any grappling. The last guy Fedor submitted was Sylvia back in 2008, and failed a bunch of submission attempts on the very green Brett Rogers (in grappling). Also compare the grappling of Bigfoot against Fedor in 2011 and against Mark Hunt a couple of years later. Mark Hunt defended pretty much all of Bigfoot's TDs and even took him down a few times. Bigfoot had no trouble taking Fedor down, moving to side control, full mount, back mount, etc. Considering that Mark Hunt did well grappling wise against all the top grapplers i mentioned in the previous post, I don't see Fedor taking down Hunt, holding him down, and submiting him in 2016 if none of them could do it. I mean Fedor at the top of his game already struggled in the grappling with a very green Hunt 10 years ago before the submission at the end.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

It will. Folks joke on that fight for various reasons but honestly can anyone name a better fight in 2016 than that one? I don't know that I can. Sign me up for watching it again.

Lawler v Condit, Bosse v O'Connell off the top of my head.

 

[sparkuri]

I've never wanted Fedor in a cage for anyone, especially the UFC.
As long as anyone still cares for Dana White's opinion or gives him a platform, I'd prefer Fedor fight elsewhere, preferrably in a ring, if at all.

 

[BJJMMA]

Well Im not basing it on just the Maldonado fight. In fact I wouldn't look at that fight at all cause there was barely any grappling. The last guy Fedor submitted was Sylvia back in 2008, and failed a bunch of submission attempts on the very green Brett Rogers (in grappling). Also compare the grappling of Bigfoot against Fedor in 2011 and against Mark Hunt a couple of years later. Mark Hunt defended pretty much all of Bigfoot's TDs and even took him down a few times. Bigfoot had no trouble taking Fedor down, moving to side control, full mount, back mount, etc. Considering that Mark Hunt did well grappling wise against all the top grapplers i mentioned in the previous post, I don't see Fedor taking down Hunt, holding him down, and submiting him in 2016 if none of them could do it. I mean Fedor at the top of his game already struggled in the grappling with a very green Hunt 10 years ago before the submission at the end.

Fact of we will never know. All we know is what we have. Everything else is just speculation. None of us, myself included, saw Hunt being taken down almost at will Saturday. Few of us would've predicted Fabio catching Fedor clean. In MMA you can't count on anything and when you think you can Matt Serra beats GSP.

 

[TheOutsiders]

Fabio deserves another shot

He will literally have to MURDER emelienenka in Russia to win.

 

[wiz]

Fact of we will never know. All we know is what we have. Everything else is just speculation. None of us, myself included, saw Hunt being taken down almost at will Saturday. Few of us would've predicted Fabio catching Fedor clean. In MMA you can't count on anything and when you think you can Matt Serra beats GSP.

"Fact of we will never know. All we know is what we have"

Of course, but that goes for every single thing that hasn't happened yet. Jesus Christ could return tomorrow. Aliens could land on the White House Lawn. But based on life in the recent past, that isn't very likely. That's how predictions work lol. Obviously there's a chance anything can happen in any sport, especially MMA. I don't think that needs to be said. Brock Lesnar can rock Fedor on the feet just like he did to Herring and Couture.

We are discussing what is the more likely outcome given what has already happened, like you just said, "All we know is what we have."

There are plenty of people that saw Mark Hunt getting taken down at will by lesnar on Saturday. One of them was Firas Zahabi, and he made the prediction based on past fights of both fighters, like im doing right now.

 

[stielar]

"Fact of we will never know. All we know is what we have"

Of course, but that goes for every single thing that hasn't happened yet. Jesus Christ could return tomorrow. Aliens could land on the White House Lawn. But based on life in the recent past, that isn't very likely. That's how predictions work lol. Obviously there's a chance anything can happen in any sport. I don't think that needs to be said.

Whenever we have discussions like this, I think it's clear that we are discussing what is the more likely outcome given what has already happened, like you just said, "All we know is what we have."

There are plenty of people that saw Mark Hunt getting taken down at will by lesnar on Saturday. One of them was Firas Zahabi, and he made the prediction based on past fights of both fighters, like im doing right now.

Whatever man, Hunt is a legend but nowhere near Fedor status. Fedor hasn't aged well but his retirement career can't really mar his actual career. If we're going to talk about someone near Fedor status, let's talk Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and GSP...Hunt, Lindland and others one hears from occasional fans are just not worth comparing to the GOAT.

Until Hunt beats Fedor, history has already been written and Fedor submitted him. You can speculate all you want, but that's what it's going to be.

 

[wiz]

Whatever man, Hunt is a legend but nowhere near Fedor status. Fedor hasn't aged well but his retirement career can't really mar his actual career. If we're going to talk about someone near Fedor status, let's talk Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and GSP...Hunt, Lindland and others one hear from occasional fans are just not worth mentioning at all.

Until Hunt beats Fedor, history has already been written and Fedor submitted him. You can speculate all you want, but that's what it's going to be.

History has also been written that Hunt got submitted by Sean McCorkle back in 2010 and middleweight Mouasi in the first round around the same period of time that Fedor beat him. History shows that Mark Hunt significantly improved his grappling over a decade, from 2006 to 2016. No speculation there.

 

[stielar]

History has also been written that Hunt got submitted by Sean McCorkle back in 2010 and middleweight Mouasi in the first round around the same period of time that Fedor beat him. History shows that Mark Hunt significantly improved his grappling over a decade, from 2006 to 2016. No speculation there

ok

 

[wiz]

Whatever man, Hunt is a legend but nowhere near Fedor status. Fedor hasn't aged well but his retirement career can't really mar his actual career. If we're going to talk about someone near Fedor status, let's talk Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and GSP...Hunt, Lindland and others one hears from occasional fans are just not worth comparing to the GOAT.

Until Hunt beats Fedor, history has already been written and Fedor submitted him. You can speculate all you want, but that's what it's going to be.

Fedor getting badly hurt by Maldonado and losing 3 huge upsets in a row (in the fashion that he lost) really put a dent in his GOAT discussion, not to mention the quality of many of his opponents; there were plenty of top guys in his weight class that he didn't even fight. Anderson, GSP and Jones always fought nothing but the very best in their weight class. They surpassed Fedor a while ago.

 

[canofsticks]

I'd prefer not to see Fedor in the UFC at this point. I truly don't think he's capable of fighting at the same level he was at 10 years ago. If he signed with the UFC, they would likely promote him as one of the greatest fighters ever, Joe would ooze respect, there'd be awesome promos of him being a killer prior to the PPV and everybody, including the casuals would get really amped.

Then he'd have a really underwhelming fight and we'd all be disappointed.

There's just no positive I can see, for the fans or Fedor.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Whatever man, Hunt is a legend but nowhere near Fedor status. Fedor hasn't aged well but his retirement career can't really mar his actual career. If we're going to talk about someone near Fedor status, let's talk Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and GSP...Hunt, Lindland and others one hears from occasional fans are just not worth comparing to the GOAT.

The excuses Fedor fans make never cease to amaze me.

"Fedor didn't lose in 9 years"
What about that loss he had?
"You're a noob! You didn't see the fight, everyone knows he didn't really lose. Besides he won 25 in a row after that."
Umm, more than a couple of those fights were against lhw's or were freak shows.
"Just you wait. He's coming to Strikeforce. He's going to show everyone why he's the GOAT."
*loses 3 in a row*
"What do you expect? He's on the downside of his career, everyone gets old. He's still the GOAT"

"Oh yeah, Fedor's coming back! Here we go, he had time to refocus. We'll see some good stuff now."
He's fighting Jaideep Singh.
"Well, it's a tuneup fight, he's been off for 3 years you know."
He's fighting Fabio Maldonado next.
"Well, there are rumors he's going to sign with the UFC"
*Brock comes back and pounds out Mark Hunt after a 5 year layoff. Fedor resigns with EFN*
"You need to understand he's already the GOAT so he doesn't need to do anything, nor will I listen to any of your counterpoints."

Meanwhile GSP be like:

 

[stielar]

Meanwhile GSP be like:

Meanwhile let's see what GSP has to say about that:


View: https://youtu.be/Vs_hSABuaOk?t=14m59s

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Meanwhile let's see what GSP has to say about that:


View: https://youtu.be/Vs_hSABuaOk?t=14m59s

That's a good point because GSP isn't at all known for his modesty. Definitely the type to say he's the best when the cameras are on him.

 

[MMAHAWK]

The excuses Fedor fans make never cease to amaze me.

"Fedor didn't lose in 9 years"
What about that loss he had?
"You're a noob! You didn't see the fight, everyone knows he didn't really lose. Besides he won 25 in a row after that."
Umm, more than a couple of those fights were against lhw's or were freak shows.
"Just you wait. He's coming to Strikeforce. He's going to show everyone why he's the GOAT."
*loses 3 in a row*
"What do you expect? He's on the downside of his career, everyone gets old. He's still the GOAT"

"Oh yeah, Fedor's coming back! Here we go, he had time to refocus. We'll see some good stuff now."
He's fighting Jaideep Singh.
"Well, it's a tuneup fight, he's been off for 3 years you know."
He's fighting Fabio Maldonado next.
"Well, there are rumors he's going to sign with the UFC"
*Brock comes back and pounds out Mark Hunt after a 5 year layoff. Fedor resigns with EFN*
"You need to understand he's already the GOAT so he doesn't need to do anything, nor will I listen to any of your counterpoints."

Meanwhile GSP be like:

Gsp losing to Hughes no different that Fedor to Werdum.
Gsp getting KO'd by a lightweight Serra I'd say is probably worse than Fedor's loss to Hendo.

Fedor's loss to 280lb Bigfoot is comparable to Gsp. Oh wait he never fought anyone bigger than him.

Was Jones loss to Hamill a real loss?

Nobody thinks 40 year old Fedor is the Goat. But pride Fedor was the best fighter that I've ever watched.

 

[Silverball]

Since Mark Hunt is being used as some sort of gauge in this thread, here he is being knocked out by a middleweight. This fight took place in 2008, so based on that fight you'd have to conclude that his chin hasn't been the same since.

Seriously though, if Fedor is negotiating exclusively with Rizin and EFN at this point, then it's all about the money for him. As far as the UFC goes, that ship appears to have sailed years ago.

 

[Bozy]

Meh. Never thought he wanted to fight there anyways. Maybe EFN has found a Grocery Clerk that Fedor wants to fight.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Gsp losing to Hughes no different that Fedor to Werdum.
Gsp getting KO'd by a lightweight Serra I'd say is probably worse than Fedor's loss to Hendo.

Both were avenged in impressive fashion, unlike Fedor's losses.

Fedor's loss to 280lb Bigfoot is comparable to Gsp. Oh wait he never fought anyone bigger than him.

Hendricks was 30+ lbs heavier than GSP when the cage door closed behind them. Ultimately both Fedor and GSP fought within their weight classes, there really isn't much more to it than that.

Was Jones loss to Hamill a real loss?

In my opinion there's no such thing as a real loss, or a fake loss. There's simply what does or doesn't show up in the win column. That "1" will always show up in Jones' and Fedor's loss column whether people like it or not.

But pride Fedor was the best fighter that I've ever watched.

Pride as a whole was the greatest fighting I've ever watched, but I also recognize looking back on it that it wasn't all that it appeared to be. I'm not suggesting for a second that Fedor didn't accomplish some absolutely incredible things in the ring, he most certainly did, but looking back there are a lot of asterisks on his story. As a fan of his I've found it most troubling that he seems to be going out of his way to not address any of the questionable moments. Does anyone think he couldn't beat Hendo or Bigfoot today? Yet he avoids them. The whole world wanted Brock v Fedor, we could have had it with Brock coming off of a 5 year layoff, instead he resigns elsewhere. If GSP comes back he's either doing super fights, or trying to get his belt back not fighting for easy paychecks.

 

[TheOutsiders]

Since Mark Hunt is being used as some sort of gauge in this thread, here he is being knocked out by a middleweight. This fight took place in 2008, so based on that fight you'd have to conclude that his chin hasn't been the same since.

Seriously though, if Fedor is negotiating exclusively with Rizin and EFN at this point, then it's all about the money for him. As far as the UFC goes, that ship appears to have sailed years ago.

Not just any middleweight friend. That's Melvin Manhoef who could KO a bull.

 

[wiz]

Gsp losing to Hughes no different that Fedor to Werdum.
Gsp getting KO'd by a lightweight Serra I'd say is probably worse than Fedor's loss to Hendo.

Fedor's loss to 280lb Bigfoot is comparable to Gsp. Oh wait he never fought anyone bigger than him.

Was Jones loss to Hamill a real loss?

Nobody thinks 40 year old Fedor is the Goat. But pride Fedor was the best fighter that I've ever watched.

Fedor lost 3 huge unavenged upsets in a row while GSP lost 1 and avenged it in devastating fashion.

What about 32 year old fedor though when he lost? Cause that was a a couple years after Pride. Werdum, Bigfoot and Hendo were around all throughout Fedor's Pride reign, who's to say he wouldn't have lost to them then?

I would have liked to see Fedor fight more well rounded fighters before calling him the best fighter.

 

[MMAHAWK]

Fedor lost 3 huge unavenged upsets in a row while GSP lost 1 and avenged it in devastating fashion.

What about 32 year old fedor though when he lost? Cause that was a a couple years after Pride. Werdum, Bigfoot and Hendo were around all throughout Fedor's Pride reign, who's to say he wouldn't have lost to them then?

I would have liked to see Fedor fight more well rounded fighters before calling him the best fighter.

You are free to your opinion. I watched all of these fights happen when they did. Did you? You obviously are not a fan of Fedor as you are one of the first people to jump in and attack his career. Do I think fEdor beats Hendo and Werdum in Pride yes. In fact I think he beats them both an hour after he fought them the first time. Bigfoot was a roided out beast at the time that had 70lbs on him. Don't think that was ever a good matchup for him. Especially after 35 career fights.
The can talk of Fedor is a joke as well. He was fighting 4-6 times a year and yes a couple a year were not on his level.
If gsp fought Hughes, Shawn Michael, Bj Penn, Mayhem Miller then Donald Trump on new years to round the year out. Would you say he was a can crusher or fought a few low level fighters but fought 5 times. Or would you prefer Gsp fought Hughes then Bj 8 months later.
As far as not fighting some of the ufc guys. Fedor was the undisputed king for 10 years why did the ufc guys not go to pride or Affliction to fight the best?
I've said it before. I don't care if you don't think fEdor is the best. Even thought he was to me. But if you don't think he is a top 5 fighter of all time I question every option one has after that.

 

[BJJMMA]

Fedor lost 3 huge unavenged upsets in a row while GSP lost 1 and avenged it in devastating fashion.

What about 32 year old fedor though when he lost? Cause that was a a couple years after Pride. Werdum, Bigfoot and Hendo were around all throughout Fedor's Pride reign, who's to say he wouldn't have lost to them then?

I would have liked to see Fedor fight more well rounded fighters before calling him the best fighter.

How many more fighters do you want him to face?
He beat Nogueria, Coleman, Cro Cop, Randleman, Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski, Bablu etc. Hard to find another HW with anything close to that.

 

[MMAHAWK]

I also find it funny. That for a fighter that people seem to think was overrated he is constantly talked about. It is almost as if people think that if they say he wasn't that good or didn't fight the best it will somehow become true. Anderson Is 0-3-1 in his last 4. Don't see people bashing him. In fact he was praised for just fighting and surviving. Fedor fights gets beat on bad yet survives showing unbelievable heart and he is a bum. GSP wins a controversial dec. Then runs into retirement using steroids as an excuse. Just maybe a guy who fought safe for years realized he was about to start to get crushed.

Do I think Fedor beats Brock now. I can't say for sure he would. But I would bet my house he doesn't try to out point him(GSP) or throw 3 punches (HUNT). Win or lose he is leaving it all in the cage everytime.