Society Why do Regular Citizens Need Assault Weapons?

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@conor mcgregor nut hugger I'm not reading all 16 pages at this point. Can you tell me if anyone has answered your question directly please?
One person has said that the reason we need assault weapons is to protect us from the police. I'm not sure if he was trolling or not.

No one else has even attempted to answer the question. It's been guntards arguing semantics and minutia for the most part.
 

SensoriaUtopia

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And yet, I don't hear stories about citizens stopping rampages like this because they were lawfully exercising their 2nd Amendment rights by owning and legally carrying a firearm, and were there when someone opened fire in a movie theater.

The reasoning behind the second amendment is sound and I support it, but it seems extremely, disproportiately rare that you hear about anyone using a gun for its intended, constitutionally-supported purpose. Refering to private citizens in defensive situations here, not police or military.

For the record I own and train with several firearms.

Bingo, this guy gets it. Good to see you are a gun owner who sees right through the NRA's bs. They biggest conjob in this country is the NRA actually making people believe they are the one protecting the 2nd amendment. YOu have intelligent people that actually think if there was no NRA we had have no 2nd amendment left, which is bs.

Huge difference between making logical gun laws and taking away our right to bear arms. Good on you my man
 

SensoriaUtopia

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One person has said that the reason we need assault weapons is to protect us from the police. I'm not sure if he was trolling or not.

No one else has even attempted to answer the question. It's been guntards arguing semantics and minutia for the most part.

Bingo. I hate the terms guntards, or libtards, but your sentiment is spot on.
 

La Paix

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One person has said that the reason we need assault weapons is to protect us from the police. I'm not sure if he was trolling or not.

No one else has even attempted to answer the question. It's been guntards arguing semantics and minutia for the most part.
How many posts like

"Sharks kill people too, you plan on banning fucking sharks?"
 

mysticmac

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One person has said that the reason we need assault weapons is to protect us from the police. I'm not sure if he was trolling or not.

No one else has even attempted to answer the question. It's been guntards arguing semantics and minutia for the most part.
In 2014, these weapons were used by citizens to protect their rights and defend themselves against the police.

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia

It happened again in 2016.

Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge - Wikipedia

It's already been mentioned what happen when a crazy person shot up a church in Texas recently.

These weapons are used frequently by armed citizens defending themselves, their homes, and their families. These stories typically aren't reported by national media, but you can Google it to find numerous occurrences.

These weapons are also used for hunting certain game in certain areas.
 
M

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How many posts like

"Sharks kill people too, you plan on banning fucking sharks?"
So far we've had:

- pools (no I'm not joking)
- knives
- homemade bombs
- pistols

And A LOT of people saying "this would have happened anyway" despite the fact that I've explained to them that it's an "Appeal to Probability" argumentative fallacy.
 

tang

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Oct 21, 2015
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Yup, this is a problem. I apologize in advance for the long ass writing but
Awhile back, I was flagged by the Feds, I was one of those vets with episodes of PTSD and was voluntarily locked up in 5150 (institution and welfare code admission to psych-ward). Not going into detail why I was there but it's a standard when you discharge from there, they put a 5-year restriction on whether or not you can purchase a firearm and you can appeal to the court to get that overturned before 5 years is up. At the time, I did own some illegal firearms so I didn't feel the need to go to court and appeal.
About 3 years after, I was turning my life around so gave up the illegal ones and I've decided to go purchase my first legal firearm. I didn't have to do any BS, like firearm safety training certification, given that I was former military, but there was a section to write down my SSN, but it said optional. Knowing that I probably have an asterisk next to my name about 5150, I didn't write down my social. I had to wait 10 days (lived in LA at the time) but after 10 days, I was able to pick up my brand new firearm. I don't have any crazy thoughts of shooting innocent people but had I done that, who is liable? The gun-store? The system?

I'm all for changing the way they sell and conduct background checks when purchasing a firearm. I just don't like when lawmakers freak out after incidents like this and wanting to ban a specific part or put more restrictions on law-abiding gun-owners which I feel is preventing nothing. All these incidents keep happening even after many bans were implemented on parts, plus these are not applicable to the criminals and give them more power. (pretty easy to find a full-auto AR on the street)

Now, all my shit is legit as it comes, I follow all the laws in my county, even registered my AR as an assault weapon (mainly cuz I didn't want to mod). But honestly, I don't care. I have the AR cuz it's available and familiar with it. If it was illegal to purchase, I won't lose sleep over it. I can't speak for other gun-owners, that's just my take. I still believe it's not about the weapon but who's pulling the trigger.

Doesn't matter how much restrictions or ban are implemented, the shitheads and criminals will always find ways to thrive within the restricted limits and banning in one country won't do anything cuz our neighbors like Mexico and Canada have all kinds of guns, they'll still make their way into the US, and those are not even regulated.

Look at Mexico, guns are illegal yet, they have 2nd highest murder in the world right after war-torn countries like Syria but higher than Iraq and Afghanistan, where we're dropping bombs and shit.

During the LA riot in 1992, it took several days before the National Guard came to rescue. There were heavy tensions between Black and Korean communities, which I read 90% of buildings burnt during the riot was in Koreatown. I guess they were sick of waiting, so the Korean store owners decided to take initiative and defend their own stores with firearms from the looters. That was a good example in the modern times of why we need the guns to protect ourselves cuz the Government won't be there, most of the time.
 

tang

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Oct 21, 2015
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So far we've had:

- pools (no I'm not joking)
- knives
- homemade bombs
- pistols

And A LOT of people saying "this would have happened anyway" despite the fact that I've explained to them that it's an "Appeal to Probability" argumentative fallacy.
bro, I don't think Appeal to Probability really applies here,
If Jimi Hendrix came across a piece of shit guitar, it's pretty safe to bet that he'll still play some bad ass guitar.
cuz it's not about the instrument but who's playing just like it's not about the weapon but who's pulling the trigger.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

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Jul 22, 2015
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You know why all this happens?
It happens because the government (who people here seem to want to have more power) doesn't manage the power they currently have properly. Florida high school shooter was reported the FBI. Vegas shooter was on psyche meds. Texas shooter was supposed to be on the no buy list (Air Force didn't properly report) The Orlando shooter's employer removed him from his job at a court house after threatening to have Al-Qaeda kill a deputy's family, but didn't bother to report these threats to anyone else. All of these people should have been prevented from owning firearms under the current regulations. Oh, and with the possible exception of the church, they committed these crimes in places where guns are prohibited.
 

tang

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Oct 21, 2015
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It happens because the government (who people here seem to want to have more power) doesn't manage the power they currently have properly. Florida high school shooter was reported the FBI. Vegas shooter was on psyche meds. Texas shooter was supposed to be on the no buy list (Air Force didn't properly report) The Orlando shooter's employer removed him from his job at a court house after threatening to have Al-Qaeda kill a deputy's family, but didn't bother to report these threats to anyone else. All of these people should have been prevented from owning firearms under the current regulations. Oh, and with the possible exception of the church, they committed these crimes in places where guns are prohibited.
I'm sure they were all following the "Appeal to Probability" rule, so they didn't act out on it. "We don't know that for sure cuz the logical fallacy states it"
 

SensoriaUtopia

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It happens because the government (who people here seem to want to have more power) doesn't manage the power they currently have properly. Florida high school shooter was reported the FBI. Vegas shooter was on psyche meds. Texas shooter was supposed to be on the no buy list (Air Force didn't properly report) The Orlando shooter's employer removed him from his job at a court house after threatening to have Al-Qaeda kill a deputy's family, but didn't bother to report these threats to anyone else. All of these people should have been prevented from owning firearms under the current regulations. Oh, and with the possible exception of the church, they committed these crimes in places where guns are prohibited.

Exactly and those protocols needs to get tighter. THere is no excuse for that. Texas shooter was able to buy his firearms at some outside tent conventions I heard. that's insane. THe government is not holding people accountable because you have a huge portion of GOP elected people, put in by the NRA. So of course they do nothing. We need to stand up to the NRA.

NRA had a huge assist with Trump getting elected and Trump knows that if he wants a good shot at getting another 4 years, as he campaigns through the bible belt region, the area where the NRA is very influential, that if he takes them on, they will do what they can to undercut him.

Did you see the hot air speech Trump gave the day after the shooting, the POS only talked about pryaer and comfort and we aere here for you bs, and vague talk about mental health. He said literally nothing about tangible things to do to stop this, like more gun laws, more vetting, more protocols because that is not what the NRA wants to hear or the bible belt budweiser drinking luddite with sitting on his porch in Alabama with a gun on his lap and a confederate flag waving.


It's at least a 20 point plan that needs to happen and until we stand up to the evil NRA this will only continue I think.
 

SensoriaUtopia

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Why don't we try enforcing the protocols first?

How do we enforce protocols when the people in power are put there right now by the NRA. That's why the GOP needs to grow balls. In order for these protocols to be enforced you need people in office that have the compassion. When 90% of the GOP is put in place by the NRA, it's like having a bunch of ISIS bastards be the TSA agents at our airports, makes no sense right. Same thing, until we vote out the people put in by the NRA, it is only then that the protocols can be enforced in my thinking sir.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

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Jul 22, 2015
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How do we enforce protocols when the people in power are put there right now by the NRA.
1) The NRA does not staff the federal agencies who are not currently doing their jobs.
2) Call me crazy, but I don't think $4 mil over 20 years buys congress.
Since 1998, the National Rifle Association has donated at least $4.1 million to current members of Congress.
Analysis | Have your representatives in Congress received donations from the NRA?

You may want to investigate how much the people who pedal psyche meds donate though:

Lobbying Spending Database Pharmaceuticals/Health Products, 2017 | OpenSecrets
 

SensoriaUtopia

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1) The NRA does not staff the federal agencies who are not currently doing their jobs.
2) Call me crazy, but I don't think $4 mil over 20 years buys congress.


Analysis | Have your representatives in Congress received donations from the NRA?

You may want to investigate how much the people who pedal psyche meds donate though:

Lobbying Spending Database Pharmaceuticals/Health Products, 2017 | OpenSecrets

My man not sure how you came up with your numbers. Look at what I found in seconds


NRA Contributions: How Much Politicians Like Roy Blunt Receive ...
fortune.com › Leadership › NRA
2 days ago - And the longer some politicians have been in business, the more money they've received from the groups. In the 2016 election, the NRA spent $11,438,118 to support Donald Trump—and another $19,756,346 to oppose Hillary Clinton. That's over $31 million spent on one presidential race. Presidential ...
Did the Kremlin Give Money to the National Rifle Association to Help ...
Did the Kremlin Give Money to the National Rifle Association to Help Trump?
1 day ago - According to an 18 January 2018 McClatchy D.C. Bureau report, the FBI is investigating allegations that Alexander Torshin, an official at the Central Bank of the Russia and life member of the NRA, funneled money through the gun lobby group to the Trump campaign. The reporting was based on interviews ...
'Thoughts and prayers' and fistfuls of NRA money: Why America can't ...
www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-nra-politicians-20180215-story.html
2 days ago - The 2016 election marked a high point in electoral spending by the NRA and its affiliate, the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, with donations totaling $54 million. Much of that was devoted to the presidential campaign. The total so far this year comes to only $1.65 million, though the campaign season has ...
Why the NRA has so much clout in Washington - USA Today
NRA's big spending pays off with clout and wins in Washington
2 days ago - "So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior," Trump wrote Thursday ... Sheila Krumholz, of the Center for Responsive Politics, said it's not just money that gives the NRA influence, but its membership of nearly five million activists.
NRA Sticking With Trump, Breaks Own Record for Campaign ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/.../nra-sticking-trump-breaks-own-record-campaign-spendi...
Oct 12, 2016 - As many Republican leaders abandon Donald Trump — and some donors ask for their money back — one deep-pocketed supporter has remained generous and steadfast: the National Rifle Association. The NRA is spending more than it ever has on elections this year — more than $36 million at last count ...
NRA, Russia and Trump: Money laundering poisoning US democracy ...
https://www.cnbc.com/.../nra-russia-and-trump-money-laundering-poisoning-us-demo...
2 days ago - NRA, Russia and Trump: How 'dark money' is poisoning American democracy. The FBI ... Although much of the reporting on Russia has focused on whether there was "collusion" with the Trump campaign — a genuine concern — the investigation is also revealing another disquieting reality: that American ...
How Much Did The NRA Donate To Trump? He's Been Loyal To The ...
https://www.romper.com/.../how-much-did-the-nra-donate-to-trump-hes-been-loyal-t...
Oct 2, 2017 - Trump's sweeping message of assurance to the NRA was a big deal, especially since he was the first sitting president to address the NRA since 1983, according to NPR. If anyone was surprised by Trump's speech at the time, they shouldn't have been — it only made sense that Trump would give a glowing ...
The NRA Placed Big Bets on the 2016 Election, and Won Almost All of ...
https://www.opensecrets.org/.../the-nra-placed-big-bets-on-the-2016-election-and-won...
Nov 9, 2016 - The NRA's big night came as a tidal wave of white voters without college degrees voted overwhelmingly for Trump, leading to one of the biggest ... The reasons why this demographic turned out in such high numbers for the GOP nominee will be parsed for years, and it is not at all clear how much of a factor ...
Opinion | The Congress Members Receiving the Most N.R.A. Funding ...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/.../thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.htm...
Oct 4, 2017 - Because ours include money the N.R.A. spends on behalf of candidates, in addition to money it gives directly to candidates. Note: John McCain received the bulk of his donations as the 2008 Republican presidential nominee. For all Congress members, total includes both direct campaign contributions as ...
How Much Did The NRA Spend On Getting Trump Elected? They ...
https://www.bustle.com/.../how-much-did-the-nra-spend-on-getting-trump-elected-the...
Oct 2, 2017 - According to a report by Open Secrets and Trace, the NRA gave $30.3 million to Trump's campaign. ... So, where is the NRA getting all this money? ... It's important to note that NRA membership is only made up of roughly six to seven percent of gun owners in America, according t
 

SensoriaUtopia

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BeardOfKnowledge @ConorMcGregorsBeard

Here are different articles and some very relavant chunks of information.

"The NRA" and Trump actively lobbied against reducing the size of gun magazines. The Las Vegas killer did not even have to reload."

"According to a report by Open Secrets and Trace, the NRA gave $30.3 million to Trump's campaign.A month before the election, NBC reported that $9.6 million (of the then-$21 million contribution) had been spent on ads and spreading a pro-Trump message, while the majority — $12 million — had been spent towards attacking his opponent Hillary Clinton, the most the NRA has ever spent on an election in history. So, where is the NRA getting all this money? According to the NRA’s website, a one-year membership costs only $40, but, in 2015, The Washington Post reported that the NRA had about five million members, equaling out to $200 million a year, just from membership dues. That’s not even counting donations or any other type of fundraising efforts."

"But when it comes to funding, the NRA may have finally gone too far: the FBI recently launched an investigation to determine whether a Russian central banker, and Putin ally, illegally funneled money through the organization to help the Trump campaign.

These allegations have prompted a complaint to the Federal Election Commission and an effort by Sen. Ron Wyden to obtain documents from the Treasury Department and the NRA. As shocking as other Russia-related revelations have been — attempts to hack voting machines, vast Internet propaganda, leaking of stolen campaign information — this allegation illustrates a problem of even broader scope.

Although much of the reporting on Russia has focused on whether there was "collusion" with the Trump campaign — a genuine concern — the investigation is also revealing another disquieting reality: that American democracy has a money laundering problem."



"Moreover, in the case of the NRA, the FBI is now investigating whether illicit funds were spent in support of Trump's political campaign. We have long warned that our broken system of campaign finance disclosure creates opportunities for foreign governments to illegally influence American elections, undetected.

The NRA is among the largest "dark money" organizations, reporting the greatest amount of campaign spending without revealing the source of the funds — over $35 million in the 2016 election cycle alone. Still, this amount was just a fraction of the over $175 million in reported campaign-related spending that came from unknown sources."

"according to an 18 January 2018 McClatchy D.C. Bureau report, the FBI is investigating allegations that Alexander Torshin, an official at the Central Bank of the Russia and life member of the NRA, funneled money through the gun lobby group to the Trump campaign."

"The NRA's annual lobbying expenditures come to millions of dollars a year: Gun rights advocacy groups, of which the NRA is the kingpin, spent more than $135 million on lobbying in 1998-2017, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Gun manufacturers spent an additional $21 million. Those figures swamped the spending of gun control advocacy groups, which mustered only about $19 million in that period."

"The NRA's use of independent spending — on ads, mailers and emails — to mobilize voters has made it "one of the most powerful political organizations in America," said Adam Winkler, a UCLA law professor and author of 2011 book, Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America."

"Politicians don't listen to the NRA simply because they spend money, they listen to the NRA because the NRA's money is effectively spent swaying voters," he said."
 

SensoriaUtopia

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So, you are clearly proven wrong about the amount they spend in direct contributions. You also leave out that they spend exponentially more in lobbying.

Also, my previous post took me literally less than 2 minutes to find all that information.

Sorry, not buying your excusing the NRA> Again this is why we have the world. People, such as yourself, keep bending over backward to excuse and enable an evil group in the NRA. It's amazingly shameful to act like making us safer with smarter measures is going against the 2nd amendment. The NRA is an evil group, kids are being murdered specifically because of their actions.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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"The NRA's annual lobbying expenditures come to millions of dollars a year: Gun rights advocacy groups, of which the NRA is the kingpin, spent more than $135 million on lobbying in 1998-2017, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
I get that you don't like Donald Trump, but you really need to learn how to read.